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Material UI design brainstorm
Kirgman wrote:
Few more questions on the picture:

1) Can Reflection Color brightness be higher thatn 100%? Maybe should we use 0..1 range in place of 0..100% ? 0..1 is easier to undestand when all the shader input/output are in these absolute values (not percentages). I believe it would be easier with this considering existing math shaders and more future shaders especially when node based shader GUI will be out.

2) What invert checkbox is doing? Is it an indicator that switches between constant and shader property?

3) All the properties will be with shaders/textures including Fresnel IOR and Aniso rotations. Cool things can be done with that.

4) Displacement will not be here but probably in another material like current multi-material or separate "geometry_shader" which will be assigned as tag for an object.

5) Will highly likely add the dropdown selection of mixing mode for material layers: "stack based" (like now, higher layer override lower layers) or "weight based" (like people used to, everything is relative to each other).

1-The colour slider shouldn't go higher than 100%.
The only colour parameter that should and must is the one from the Emission channel.
I'm OK with having it between 0-1 instead of 0-100% if that facilitate your work. Others might have different opinions, though.

2-The Invert checkbox serves to invert on the fly the grey scale images used on certain parameters. This speeds the workflow.

4-Is a current limitation the fact that the Displacement channel, can't be used on the "regular" material?
Initial alpha version of CentiLeo for Cinema 4D ready!
Sami Timkala wrote:
Good news , one user reported that binary of CentiLeo library compiled for R17 also works for today released R18! Just copy from R17 folder to the similar copy of R18

Yes, accordingly to Maxon, all R17 plugins are supported in R18.
Material UI design brainstorm
Kirgman wrote:
Maybe 3 is too small? Anybody uses more?

I'd be happy just by having 3 but if it's possible to implement 5, just to allow more flexibility, that would be better ;)
Centileo feedbak [pBarrelas]
A feature that I'd like very much to be implemented would be the use of a biased mode, like Redshift.
Material UI design brainstorm
aleksey voz wrote:
re: uv maps. in c4d this achieved by ordering tags correctly. ie. the material uses the UV map closes on its left. so that way you can use multiple uv tags. no need to include this in the actualy material.
I know this, what I'm asking is for this feature to be used at the channel level, not material level.
This is a feature I asked Maxon to be implemented but sadly it hasn't yet.
Modo's shader tree is very flexible because you can use whatever UV set to control the texture placement at channel level. Sadly we can't do this in C4D.
Correction: in Modo, we go even deeper than channel level, we can use a different UV set per texture. As an example, in the Diffuse channel, we can have 2 layered textures and each one can use a different UV set to control its placement, without any limitation.
Edited: pBarrelas - Aug 28, 2016 20:50
Material UI design brainstorm
Kirgman wrote:
Btw if we make a global material mask and then we can assemble all the tags from left to right as an internal multi-material and get the same result as applying one multi-material.

And there can be one more special material with geometry modifications like displacement and surface discrete mask which are currently sitting in multi-material.

However in this case we need not to place user into confusion with selection tags that may use different materials for different selected polygons.
The Mask/Opacity/Weight channel would work exactly as the mask in the Multi Material but at the material level without the necessity of a Multy Material, as we have on Vray or Corona material. This has nothing to do with Selection Tags.

Regarding the use of different UV Tags at the channel level, just by have 3 available would be great. I suggested the use of a link field, that could be named UV Tag, because we're used to this kind of drag n'drop behavior in C4D. Then, the name displayed on that field
, once populated, would be the name of the UV Tag itself rather than something, from a drop down menu, like UV1, UV2..
It just looks more intuitive to me. But, like I said, this just my personal view.
Material UI design brainstorm
Hi Kirill,

The images I shared it's just a suggestion. I'm sure others might have different opinions.

Regarding the Reflection Coating levels, probably you are correct. Would it be possible to replace the default IOR field with a a shader link so we can connect the cntlFalloff if we chose so?

The Mask Channel, for the entire material, would be cool because we wouldn't need to use a Multi Material for that. It would make things a bit more practical, I think!

About turning the Material Channels animatable, do you see the widgets at the left of each material channel I added on that image? That serves to allow to animate it's ON/OFF state if we chose to. Currently we can't do that.

It would be great if we could chose to use a certain UV Tag per channel. Currently C4D's Projector shader is very limited. That is why I suggested to support the use of whatever UV Tag we choose fr om the ones we created for a object. So when we chose to use mesh map 1, that particular shader is use the 1st UV tag? What if we have 3 different UV Tags?

Rather than having a drop down menu, could we have a field wh ere we could drag and drop a certain UV Tag to be used with that shader?
Material UI design brainstorm
Hi Kirill,

good to know that you're considering to make the Material Editor more intuitive and user friendly!

Regarding the Material Editor preview window, besides only updating when the IPR window is open, it still shows the effect of all the channels even if they are off. This makes extremely difficult to make some quick material tweaks.

1-I do agree that the standard button for each slot is better than the current implementation.

2-Having that check box would make the Material Editor more versatile. This way we can chose to use either a colour or a shader, without having to disconnect that shader.

3-Please add more Reflection Coating levels.

4-Please add a dedicated Mask channel for the entire material.

5-Turn the material channels animatable.

6-Add Emission channel.

7-Ability to use chose a certain UV Tag to be used on that channel. I honestly don't know if this is a C4D SDK limitation.

Here's a possibility I worked up in PS:
Edited: pBarrelas - Aug 27, 2016 23:17
Centileo feedbak [pBarrelas]
Hi Kirill,

Thanks for the reply.

-The Object Tag has to do with controling the participation of that object in a scene at a deper level.
With the Object Tag you should control things like:
  • Direct Object Visibility (visible to camera)
  • Visible in Reflections
  • Visible in Transmition
  • Cast Shadows
  • Receive shadows
  • Motion Blur participation
  • Seen by GI
  • Visibility on Masks
  • Object ID (once Object/Material IDs gets implemented)
-The Film Offset that we have on the default camera, is what the tiltshift lenses do for architectural photography. Just play with it and you´ll see an instant feedback in the viewport.

-The material preview doesn´t always work. It stays black and doesn't give feedback no matter which parameters you´re playing with. And I´m feeling it a bit slow when it does work.

-A seperat resolution control on the IPR window would be welcomed. This would speed tests without having to change the general resolution.

-The Production Render Iterations is the main quality control where the higher the number, the better the quality. I´d like to have a control where you could specify for how long you want the image to render (10mins, 30mins, etc....)

-Yes, the green bar although helpull to see the current status, having some sort of information saying "Rendering iteration 357..." or a percentage would be helpful.

-I´d personally perfer to Tex instead of SH (shader), on the material editor. It makes a bit more intuitive.
Edited: pBarrelas - Aug 27, 2016 14:34
Centileo feedbak [pBarrelas]
I created this topic in order to keep organized my feedback and founded bugs in one place.
I just installed it and fired up a sample scene to test it.
I'm going to keep increasing this list along with more testing.

I find the material system a bit counter intuitive but I have to play a bit more with it before giving a proper feedback.
The Render Settinhs are well layed out and simple to work with.

Missing features [0.42 Alpha]

-No Object Tag (compositing tag).
-No camera Film Offset support.
-Does´t take into account object visibility flags.
-No camera tag in order to control Post-Render settings per camera, Currently, we can only contril this globaly.

Bugs [0.42 Alpha]

-After creating a new material, the material preview doesn´t upd ate properly.
-The Environment Tag inverts the loaded textures. [Current solution: se t the scale to -1 on the Z axis (Sky Object)]

Wish List

-Pause/Resume button in IPR window.
-A switch button between Render Settings resolution and a smaller custom resolution that respect the resolution ration, for fast testing.
-Faster material previews.
-Override material in render settings.
-Fast architectural glass to speedup calculations on window panes.
-A control to render the Productions Iterations through time. This we can chose to render up to a certain iterations number or time.
-Picture Viewer feedback of the current image pass (iteration).
-Please modify the SH (from shader) to Tex on the material editor. It´s more intuitive.
Edited: pBarrelas - Aug 27, 2016 14:29
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