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Please, can you send me a scene file and HDR for experiments to info@centileo.com

Sure, sent!

I hope you can find something to optimize and get more speed :)

Here we go with the next test. I played with the "scratches" shader. I am amazed of this shader.

So easy to give every material the little extra for more realism!
dof_lamp.jpg (1.1 Mb)
Edited: vblackrender. - May 1, 2020 20:06
 
Administrator  Posts: 449
May 1, 2020 21:12
vblackrender., thanks for scene!
there are 2 problems with interior:
1) Post-process exposure 6.7 - it's too hard for rendering sample to operate on almost black lighting and then compensate it in post. Numerical imprecision and other things have more influence at this scale. It's better to operate on exposure at values close to 0 or 1, 2. Don't forget to make Expected Exposure in render settings to be similar to the one in Post.
What I did is to decrease Post Exposure, Increase HDR multiplier and increase the Clamp Direct/Indect values to 20. It's less noisy, but also has different contrast. So need to improve precision in future.
2) Some problems with sampling of your HDR. I don't know yet, but maybe the sampable resolution that we consruct is too low, need to see and not make +1 user setting. Actually I have tested another HDR (from the FB post scene). And it has much less noise. However, it's also bright, contrast (narrow sun), but it's lowres. Lowres/highres of original HDR shouldn't be influential, but the resolution of sampable HDR is.

Dark corners in 2 fixed versions have less noise as I was looking for. So I am calm for that CentiLeo special GI sampling algo. Just need to improve HDR initial procession :)
original.png (2.72 Mb)
another_hdr.png (2.59 Mb)
 
Administrator  Posts: 449
May 1, 2020 21:19
Btw, it lags on my PC too! Very slightly. The cooling system works too intensively and with the same rythm.

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vblackrender. wrote:
Here we go with the next test. I played with the "scratches" shader. I am amazed of this shader.

So easy to give every material the little extra for more realism!
Personally, I don't like our scratches already. Need to have bend property and better distribution of their length (they are too similar). So, improvements are expected there once I know how to do them ;)
At the same time I like Flakes a lot more. They can be used as masks for multi-material stacking and combine several reflection shaders. Such manipulations are much easier in Node Editor of course.
 
Great to see this tests, very interesting!

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Lowres/highres of original HDR shouldn't be influential, but the resolution of sampable HDR is.

Yes, I have tested the HDR in lower res, there where no difference.

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So I am calm for that CentiLeo special GI sampling algo. Just need to improve HDR initial procession

I am excited to see the improvements :)

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Btw, it lags on my PC too! Very slightly. The cooling system works too intensively and with the same rythm.

Good to know, that this doesnt happens just on my side!

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At the same time I like Flakes a lot more.

Yeah, I need to test these out.
 
Administrator  Posts: 449
May 2, 2020 10:29
Maybe I was a bit not clear deep night. It seems to be that not only the resolution of HDR is important (lowres or highres), but the area of light vs background and intensity of that light. If HDR is high res, has small area of light with very high intensity - there can be a problem. But will need to investigate more. Probably, some of my past HDR optimizations have failed and I need to spend more memory for them or just make them adaptive.
 
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If HDR is high res, has small area of light with very high intensity - there can be a problem.

Exactly, this kind of HDRs can give an amazing lighting mood sometimes, with stronger and longer shadows.
 
Here we go with a noisy short animation test. It looks like there is not much flickering. But would be better visible, if I let it render for much longer.

https://vimeo.com/414058284

Btw: The "insert video" function seems not to work. Would like to insert the player directly.
Edited: vblackrender. - May 2, 2020 13:00
 
Administrator  Posts: 449
May 2, 2020 14:33
If you switch-off "Static noise" in render settings the noise seed pattern will be different from frame to frame. Such property can be needed in animation denoisers.
How did you make it working with black 1/2 frames?

There should be no flickering, it uses no caches. Flickering may appear in cases of caches (especially irradiance cache with some large gather radius).
 
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Such property can be needed in animation denoisers.

Optix for now cant denoise animations without flickering and I hope that will change in near future! The corona high quality denoiser for example works in animations suprisingly good!

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How did you make it working with black 1/2 frames?

I have used a slowmotion plugin to fill the missing frames. On slow camera movements, like in the animation. It works quit well.

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There should be no flickering, it uses no caches. Flickering may appear in cases of caches (especially irradiance cache with some large gather radius).

Yeah, makes sence. No cache, no flicker.
 
Administrator  Posts: 449
May 15, 2020 19:31
Research has shown that HDR resoultion issues were not issues in that case. But! There are 4 drawn light sources in your HDR. You may see them if move the camera outside the window.
1 of lights reaches the room through the window. Another one partially reaches the room. But 2 light sources of HDR image don't reach the room at all because they are blocked by top wall. But they are bright and grab the samples computations + add 2x more noise because return no any result. So that's why so noisy. Octane is even more noisy in this scene (a lot).
I see 2 ways to fix this:
1) to erase not-needed lights from HDR image by user.
2) wait for some my adaptivity fix which may help and will cost probably +100Kb of memory consuption + tests/debugging or something like that :)

However HDR resolution issue appear in another case with very narrow bright light making very hard shadow. It's almost fixed. That problem gave 100x more noise than normal situation.
 
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1) to erase not-needed lights from HDR image by user.

Thats a good Idea!

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2) wait for some my adaptivity fix which may help and will cost probably +100Kb of memory consuption + tests/debugging or something like that.

+100kb is nothing :)

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Research has shown that HDR resoultion issues were not issues in that case. But! There are 4 drawn light sources in your HDR. You may see them if move the camera outside the window.

Thank you for this information! Its exactly like you said. I should import a HDRI with one main light source the next time. Never thought that, HDRI's can produce this kind of issueses, but makes totally sence.
Edited: vblackrender. - May 16, 2020 16:15
 
Administrator  Posts: 449
May 16, 2020 15:53
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vblackrender. wrote:
+100kb is nothing
when I think about an idea of making HDR per material it doesn't look like nothing :) But we will see, maybe some separate Sky HDR materials types could be done (a few per scene) and some normal surface materials can link to them.
At the moment 6 Sky HDR objects are possible. You may create them and assign different .hdr/.exr files and make on/off for Camera, Diffuse, Reflection, SSS, Shadow Catcher, Transmission, Translucent. For example som Sky object Environment tag has only Camera channel = 1, others are zero. The second Sky object has only Diffuse = 1 and others zero. And this way you may assign different lighting to diffrernt channels.
 
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when I think about an idea of making HDR per material it doesn't look like nothing :)

:)

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You may create them and assign different .hdr/.exr files and make on/off for Camera, Diffuse, Reflection, SSS, Shadow Catcher, Transmission, Translucent. For example som Sky object Environment tag has only Camera channel = 1, others are zero. The second Sky object has only Diffuse = 1 and others zero. And this way you may assign different lighting to diffrernt channels.

I do this very often. Nice technique!
 
Administrator  Posts: 449
May 28, 2020 08:51
Hi vblackrender., I have improved the noise reductions for HDR such as this one! 2x less noise in the same time! 8) No iteration time increase. Other HDRs that were already good dont' become worse with this modification.
May I post the "before/after" image with this your scene on the news page related to the next 0.593 fix-release? Will also insert the link to your Behance :)
 
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I have improved the noise reductions for HDR such as this one! 2x less noise in the same time! No iteration time increase. Other HDRs that were already good dont' become worse with this modification.

That sounds amazing!

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May I post the "before/after" image with this your scene on the news page related to the next 0.593 fix-release? Will also insert the link to your Behance

Sure, you can.

I am very excited about this update!
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